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Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 18 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1528<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Gun Control or No (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517)<BR>
Re: Mars exploration<BR>
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
Re: Mars exploration<BR>
Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
RE: Mergins the US and Canada<BR>
Re: Re Rations<BR>
Re NAU <BR>
RE: races<BR>
Re: Ethnicity<BR>
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
Re Translations<BR>
Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
Re: 7 Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
Re: Re Rations<BR>
Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:09:49 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Gun Control or No (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517)<BR>
<BR>
David L. Pulver <dlpulver@kos.net> wrote:<BR>
> >From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@mindspring.com><BR>
> >Subject: [OT] Firearms Discussions (long)<BR>
> >   2) It can be accurately pointed out that governments and peoples have<BR>
> >from time to time in the course of history deemed it appropriate to<BR>
> >concentrate the ability to use force in the form of projectile weapons in<BR>
> >the hands of the state.  When this has happened, the resulting changes in<BR>
> >society have been mixed at best.  Hitler made sure that guns were rounded<BR>
> >up when he took power in the 1930s.  On the other hand the UK rounded up<BR>
> >most all firearms in the 1920s when fear spread of a Communist<BR>
insurgency.<BR>
> >The former resulted in one of the most repressive regimes in history.<BR>
The<BR>
> >latter has been a stable democracy ever since (even if you may disagree<BR>
> >with the policies of the current Labour Government).<BR>
><BR>
> Fair enough. Gun ownership in the US, though, is not a legacy of the<BR>
> American Revolution.<BR>
> It's primarily a legacy of the American Civil War, which taught millions<BR>
> how to shoot and left<BR>
> them with (previously not affordable) weapons following demobilization.<BR>
<BR>
David, I have tried to be patient with you, because this is<BR>
a very emotional issue for some; however, you have<BR>
attacked the opposition in this thread, rather than offering<BR>
reasoned answers to thier arguements.  You have diverted<BR>
and redirected and made arguements to counter that have<BR>
nothing to do with thier points.  The above is a good<BR>
example.  Harold was not talking about ownership, but<BR>
rather about rights.  The right to bear arms (including<BR>
guns) was one of the things that the American War of<BR>
Independance was fought over.<BR>
<BR>
> 3) "a gun is just a tool"<BR>
><BR>
> Do gun supporters believe that gun control arguments should all the way<BR>
> along? If you argue that guns should not be outlawed because, after all,<BR>
> people can massacre their opponents with blades, and, gee, they might get<BR>
> worse stuff as well, does this apply further to other weaponry?<BR>
<BR>
If you would care to clarify the first question, I might be<BR>
willing to comment.  As to the second, I have never heard<BR>
such an arguement made; therefore, I must assume that<BR>
it is rhetorical and need not be answered. The matterial I<BR>
snipped from your post was much the same.  You make<BR>
statements that you project to be the thinking of the "gun<BR>
supporters."  And then attack them for make such<BR>
statements (which they never made).<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:09:54 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Mars exploration<BR>
<BR>
Steve Noe <fusilier@mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> We'll be in space for good when somebody can make a profit, other than<BR>
> selling launch vehicles or comsats.<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of making a profit in space.  Is there anything<BR>
about asteroid mining in Traveller?  I seem to remember<BR>
a flow-chart kind of thing in one of the TAS issues.  I<BR>
believe that it even made it into one of the Best Of TAS<BR>
issues.  Has there ever been anything official in the way<BR>
of Asteroid Mining in any of the Traveller incarnations?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:10:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com> wrote:<BR>
> Wait, I forgot -- the HMO system in the US also removes the element of<BR>
> choice from the patient, so I guess you're used to that already.  :-D<BR>
<BR>
Used to it?  Yes.  Like it?  No.  Use it?  Never.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:11:29 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
<Sethkimmel@aol.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav: would the Koran, Torah and King James Bible be recognizable in<BR>
> 5700 AD?<BR>
<BR>
We have manuscripts of the Torah that are 3000 years<BR>
old, that are almost exactly the same as the ones being<BR>
printed today.  I don't believe that another 3700 years will<BR>
make much difference.  After all, we are talking about the<BR>
very Word of God.  Even if you do not believe that it is<BR>
The Word of God, those who follow said teaching DO<BR>
and they will do everything in thier power to assure that<BR>
these documents remain unchanged for the ages.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
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<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:17:47 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:49:25 -0600, Moody, Danny M. wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: Sethkimmel@aol.com [mailto:Sethkimmel@aol.com]<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Query: How do lefties use it? Granted it's caseless, but.... <BR>
> > I look at <BR>
> > pictures of modern bullpup weapons, and it looks like a lefty <BR>
> > would have <BR>
> > his/her face up against the ejector port. Can some of the <BR>
> > gun/anti gun <BR>
> > flamies help me with this one?<BR>
> <BR>
> There are designs for bullpup weapons that eject the spent cases straight<BR>
> down.<BR>
<BR>
The G-11 being one of them-- not for ejecting spent cases (since the G-11<BR>
was caseless), but to clear misfires as someone else mentioned.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay       Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
"http://members.home.net/jlindsay"   ICQ:7521644 (Sharkey)<BR>
<BR>
"Honk if you've slept with Riker."<BR>
           -- typical Starfleet shuttlecraft bumpersticker<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:17:50 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:21:23 +1100, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ><<  A nice survival weapon for the IISS would be a bullpup 5mm/12Gauge<BR>
> combo<BR>
> > survival weapon. >><BR>
> ><BR>
> >Query: How do lefties use it? Granted it's caseless, but.... I look at<BR>
> >pictures of modern bullpup weapons, and it looks like a lefty would have<BR>
> >his/her face up against the ejector port. Can some of the gun/anti gun<BR>
> >flamies help me with this one?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Ob Trav: I assume everything is ambi, or gene therapy has eliminated left<BR>
> >hand dominance (sounds very Solomani, doesn't it...:-) )<BR>
> <BR>
>     No, Solomani's want the lefties to get hit in the face with hot brass.<BR>
<BR>
Who remembers "The Gods Must Be Crazy?"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay       Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
"http://members.home.net/jlindsay"   ICQ:7521644 (Sharkey)<BR>
<BR>
"Honk if you've slept with Riker."<BR>
           -- typical Starfleet shuttlecraft bumpersticker<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 16:19:27 EST<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Mars exploration<BR>
<BR>
    You have a good memory.  Best of the Journal-Volume 1 (1979)  Has the <BR>
article "Mining the Asteroids" that you remember.  Also, the "Beltsrike" <BR>
module from the early 80's has a lot of data and detail.  The GDW board game <BR>
"Belter" came out about the same time as Traveller, and although not set in <BR>
the official universe, was a hoot to play, if kind of heavy on bookkeeping.<BR>
    For hard data on asteroid mining, I can recommend a visit to the <BR>
Permanent.com website.  It is a great space resource development source.  All <BR>
of the angles and details get covered, and there are links to a lot of other <BR>
excellent sites.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:29:22 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
At 07:21 PM 12/18/99 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
>><<  A nice survival weapon for the IISS would be a bullpup 5mm/12Gauge<BR>
>    No, Solomani's want the lefties to get hit in the face with hot brass.<BR>
>    You can change the handedness of the weapon. Even though it is caseless<BR>
>you need a method of getting duds out of the chamber so you need a port, it<BR>
>just isn't open often.<BR>
><BR>
Most of the survival rifles like you describe that I've seen have been<BR>
single-shot guns that break open. (Over-under config. with the .22 on top<BR>
and either a .410, 20 gauge, or 12 gauge on the bottom. After you shoot a<BR>
barrrel, you have to break open the gun to reload the barrel.) <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:00:49 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Mergins the US and Canada<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman writes:<BR>
>>I've written a space combat game the history of which has<BR>
>>combined USA and Canada into the Union of North America.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>b) If any two nations of diverse peoples are similar, it is<BR>
>the US and Canada;<BR>
<BR>
	I don't know if this is true or not, certainly there<BR>
	are arguments to that effect, but many americans seem<BR>
	to underestimate the differences.  There's an old<BR>
	joke that Canadians define themselves as "not<BR>
	americans."<BR>
<BR>
>both have localized concentrations of ethnic populations,<BR>
>and a wide variety therof.<BR>
<BR>
	We're nothing but ethnic populations  ;)<BR>
	Of course, countries like the UK also fit this<BR>
	description.<BR>
<BR>
>Both have Socialized and Regulated Semi-capitalist non-<BR>
>command economies.<BR>
<BR>
	I think that it is safe to say that Canada is<BR>
	considerably more socialist than the USA.<BR>
<BR>
>Both are severed colonies of HRM George III, albiet not<BR>
>severed form colonial oppression at the same time.<BR>
<BR>
	Nor in the same fashion, but we certainly do share<BR>
	many British traditions.<BR>
<BR>
>Both are republics,<BR>
<BR>
	Canada is a republic?  When did that happen?  ;)<BR>
	Yes, we are effectively a republic, even though our<BR>
	official head of state is still a monarch (Queen<BR>
	Elizabeth).<BR>
<BR>
>and merging Canada into the US would simply result in (IIRC)<BR>
>13 new states,<BR>
<BR>
	That depends on how you make the states.  Canada has<BR>
	10 provinces, 2 territories, and Nunavut (a new<BR>
	political unit that used to be much of the Northwest<BR>
	Territories), so 13 could work.<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Realistically, they already have semi-integrated militaries<BR>
>(I see Canook Flyboys ALL THE BLOODY TIME...), with yanks<BR>
>serving at canadian bases and canooks serving at us bases.<BR>
<BR>
	Our armed services certainly do work together, but I'm<BR>
	not sure that the soldiers involved would appreciate<BR>
	being considered "semi-integrated."  :)<BR>
<BR>
>c) the common language is closer than with any other pair of<BR>
>purportedly english speaking nations, with the exception of<BR>
>the quebeois "french";<BR>
<BR>
	That's probably true, though you've probably never gone<BR>
	down to the dep for a pop (it's a Quebec thing).<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>The problems would be the loss of socialized medicine in<BR>
>Canada, differences in legal basises and biases, and the sheer<BR>
>distances involved.<BR>
<BR>
	Quebec seperatists get a lot of press, but a lot of our <BR>
	provinces want to have more power and responsibility.<BR>
	The political climate is very different than in the USA<BR>
	(I think that somebody mentioned that Canadian polititians<BR>
	tend to be rather left-winged by US standards).  Religeon<BR>
	seems to have much less influence in Canada.  Without<BR>
	belabouring the point, a merger between these two worthy<BR>
	countries would be very difficult.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:00:16 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/18/99 8:44 AM, DMoody@bridge.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Still - it does open up a whole new can (sorry) of worms.  How do the<BR>
> various races...um...well...go?<BR>
<BR>
Brings to mind an old Mad magazine strip in their Star Wars spoofs. Luke is<BR>
at the cantina and asks the bartender where the restrooms are. When he<BR>
enters the restroom he is confronted by some very odd "furniture".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:05:21 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re NAU <BR>
<BR>
>and merging Canada into the US would simply result in (IIRC) 13 new states,<BR>
>>and fewer reps in congress for new york, texas, california, etc... smaller<BR>
>>states would really not suffer in congress.<BR>
><BR>
>I think you mean it would lead to less control of the congress by the above<BR>
>mentioned states. Reps are based on population and unless all of our<BR>
>citizens moved to the new Canadian states, our representation in Congress<BR>
>would not decrease at all. We would still have the raw numbers, but a<BR>
>smaller percentage of the overall representation.<BR>
<BR>
no, the house of reps has been fixed at 435 members; the number of reps is<BR>
indeed based upon population, but said basis is splitting the 435 available<BR>
seats so each state gets 1, and any state gets shares proportionate to<BR>
their population. This change occured in 1929 [Current & Goodwin, _A<BR>
History of the United States Since 1865_, New York: Alfred P. Knopf, 1980,<BR>
p. iv]<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and it would mean a larger senate, whose size is not fixed.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:21:00 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: races<BR>
<BR>
Jory Earl writes:<BR>
>My take on races, and please, someone who is knowledgeable in<BR>
>genetics please correct me if I am wrong, is that there is<BR>
>only one human race and that the various branches of it are<BR>
>merely human adaptations to climate.<BR>
<BR>
	The distinction between "race" and "species" should be<BR>
	defined.  Biologists tend to define species of mammals<BR>
	(like us) by whether or not members can successfully<BR>
	interbreed.  Thus, horses and donkeys are different<BR>
	species because their hybrid (mule) is sterile, and all<BR>
	humans are members of same species.  There are problems<BR>
	with this definition, but it works well for most mammals.<BR>
	A race is somewhat less well defined, but is is similar<BR>
	to what biologists call a subspecies (though I would<BR>
	avoid that term in PC circles).  A race may be defined<BR>
	as a population within a species that are more likely to<BR>
	share certain traits with each other than they are with<BR>
	members of other races within the same species.  By<BR>
	these definitions, we can say that there are different<BR>
	races of humans.  The differences between these races are<BR>
	though to be, as you suggest, largely due to adaptation<BR>
	to local environments.<BR>
<BR>
>Ergo, it follows that if MY ancestors were born in Africa, I too<BR>
>would be black and not white as I am today.<BR>
<BR>
	If you go back far enough, your ancestors were born in<BR>
	Africa, as far as we know.  :)<BR>
<BR>
>I also think that in a few millennia, the people who are black<BR>
>and always living in the northern, colder climates, will<BR>
>eventually breed light-skinned people, unless they keep re-<BR>
>infusing their gene pools from other blacks migrating north.<BR>
<BR>
	Only if black people in northern climes are less likely<BR>
	to reproduce.  Currently, this does not seem to be the<BR>
	case, so I wouldn't expect the dark skin pigment in these<BR>
	families to disappear.<BR>
<BR>
>In essence, to my way of thinking, this invalidates 'racism'<BR>
>and 'hate crimes' attached to it because we are all one human<BR>
>race.<BR>
<BR>
	You are correct, I am only fine-tuning the terminology<BR>
	and throwing some light on the evolutionary process.<BR>
	There is absolutely no support for racism in evolutionary<BR>
	biology, although some have tried to twist the science to<BR>
	their own ends.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:24:12 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnicity<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/18/99 11:10 AM, shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> So, say for example, Solomani and Vilani can produce viable offspring,<BR>
> and Zhodani and Vilani can also, but Solomani and Zhodani *can't*.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting, do you mean they produce sterile offspring or none at all? What<BR>
other canonical crossbreeding is there?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:34:59 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
cos 90 wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Wait, I forgot -- the HMO system in the US also removes the element of<BR>
> choice from the patient, so I guess you're used to that already.  :-D<BR>
<BR>
Bing.. Bing.... Bing....<BR>
<BR>
And Glenn gets the prize.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:58:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
<BR>
From: David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Interesting ... never heard this one. Any reason it hasn't been<BR>
> corrected in any of the umpteen updated and redone translations<BR>
>since KJ? My copy of the NRSV still has it steal/covet ...<BR>
<BR>
My own bet is that it's not a *complete* mistranslation, probably more along<BR>
the lines that the words in the original text are such that an ambiguity in<BR>
translation is possible. I remember reading that one of the terms for God in<BR>
the Old Testament can be translated as singular or plural, for example,<BR>
which has caused some people to say that a single God is a mistranslation.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know enough beyond that to chime in.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:24:28 -0900<BR>
From: Richard Martin <asrlm@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
<BR>
Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Richard Martin writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >Actually, if I get the story line correct, the Ancients distributed Homo<BR>
> >around 3-400,000 years ago?<BR>
> <BR>
> 300,000. The whole Ancient period only spans 20,000 years, from ca.<BR>
> -310,000 to -290,000. Some MT publications erroneously introduced the<BR>
> figure -400,000, but that is a mistake.<BR>
> <BR>
> >If so then it would have been Homo erectus, not Homo habilis or Homo<BR>
> >sapiens. The first known populations Homo sapiens, at least by the<BR>
> >majority of scholars, were probably around 100,000 to 150,000 years ago<BR>
> >(archaic Homo sapiens), probably in South Africa. This would collate with<BR>
> >the African Eve theory based on mitochondrial DNA. Indeed, there is more<BR>
> >diversity amoung the populations in Africa than between Africa and the<BR>
> >rest of the world.<BR>
> <BR>
> Unfortunately the history of the Traveller universe must have been written<BR>
> before this theory achieved currency (or maybe the authors used outdated<BR>
> sources). In the TU many descendents of H. antiquitus [my term for whatever<BR>
> human subspecies the Ancients collected] are able to interbreed with Homo<BR>
> sapiens sapiens. As I understand it, this means that their oldest common<BR>
> ancestor, H. antiquitus must have been H. sapiens too. Not necessesarily H.<BR>
> sapiens neanderthalensis and certainly not H. sapiens sapiens, but definitely<BR>
> H.  sapiens _something_. This may not accord with the current knowledge of<BR>
> the Real world, but then, the Traveller universe is not the Real World.<BR>
> <BR>
> >However, there is a minority competeing theory called regional evolution<BR>
> >put forth that claims that all the regional variation in the human<BR>
> >species was due to parallel evolution in diverse, semi-isolated<BR>
> >population of Homo Erectus with just enough admixture to keep us all one<BR>
> >species.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, the 'just enough admixture' didn't happen between human populations<BR>
> stuck on different planets. In the case of Darrian it didn't even happen<BR>
> between the five population groups they were divided into.<BR>
> <BR>
> If you insist that the Traveller universe must be just like the Real World,<BR>
> I suggest that current scientific theories about the evolution of man are<BR>
> wrong.<BR>
<BR>
Actually I was not insisting that the Traveller universe MUST be like<BR>
the real world (whatever that may be). I was just trying to shed some<BR>
light on some of the previous posts by outlining the current state of<BR>
affairs in Human evolution.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
However, from a long past experience playing in the RPG universe I have<BR>
learned that anything goes, so it would not have been impossible that<BR>
the Ancients did some manipulation of their own. If they can take a<BR>
canine breed to sentience then what is a little tweeking on the Homo<BR>
line?? Who knows, maybe they tweaked 300,000 years ago and produced the<BR>
first Homo sapiens for both this world and export!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Richard Martin<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I think, therefor I am, therefor I must be... Still here<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:17:49 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Translations<BR>
<BR>
>> Also, elsewhere in the TNK, "Suffer not a witch to live" should<BR>
>> have read "poisoner" for "witch".<BR>
><BR>
>Urban legend. Much as members of the Wiccan community would like that<BR>
>to be true, it isn't. However, the type of "magic practioner"<BR>
>translated as "witch" wasn't much like we'd consider a "witch".<BR>
><BR>
Funny, I originally heard this translational problem from Rev Donald<BR>
Bramble, OP, and confirmed by Rev. John Fearon, OP: "Thou Shalt not suffer<BR>
a poisoner of wells to live" is more accurate than "witch". I've also<BR>
encountered this since from many jews, and had one show me in a<BR>
translation/dual language edition of the Torah this particular turn of<BR>
phrase. I've never heard a wiccan quote this particular error at me; most<BR>
of them seem to like being in an "Outlawed" religion. Especially my wife.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: Will anybody still speak the language of the Warrant of<BR>
Restoration and Cleon Zhunastu by IY 1100? Not IMTU, except for lawyers.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:37:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
<BR>
All told...has it been specifically stated that ALL human races in the OTU<BR>
can interbreed with each other...Solomani, Vilani, Zhodani, and all the<BR>
rest?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:05:01 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 7 Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Rocheworld: The most spectacular known "double planet". Two earth-sized<BR>
>            worlds of almost equal size/mass revolving about a common<BR>
>            center, just barely outside each other's Roche limit. They<BR>
>            are so close that they shar a common atmosphere. And once a<BR>
>            year, there is a "waterfall" from one to the other.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds interesting. What is the source, please? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 16:22:57 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/18/99 3:24 PM, asrlm@gci.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> However, from a long past experience playing in the RPG universe I have<BR>
> learned that anything goes, so it would not have been impossible that<BR>
> the Ancients did some manipulation of their own. If they can take a<BR>
> canine breed to sentience then what is a little tweeking on the Homo<BR>
> line?? Who knows, maybe they tweaked 300,000 years ago and produced the<BR>
> first Homo sapiens for both this world and export!<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
The idea that the Ancients tweaked the stock left on Terra is open to<BR>
debate, and makes for some great X-File type stuff, but I thought it was a<BR>
given some of the transplanted stock got tweaked (to fit a new environment<BR>
if nothing else).  I assume such moderations could be extreme enough to<BR>
preclude interbreeding. IMTU Terran type worlds are rare and this would<BR>
require some genegineering to colonize even the more habitable planets.<BR>
<BR>
Can the Jonkereen(sp?) Breed with standard human stock?<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Richard Martin<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> I think, therefor I am, therefor I must be... Still here<BR>
<BR>
JHVH- Trapped in this wreckage of flesh...<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:08:18 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
At 11:36 -0500 18/12/99, "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net> wrote:<BR>
>What Doug? your not willing to plunge the depths required for such<BR>
>a strange project, we need to find another loo-se canon to write it<BR>
>then, I'm feeling kinda flushed about it myself.<BR>
<BR>
Arrrrggggggggghhhhhhhh!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:49:45 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
At 14:06 -0500 18/12/99, "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> >I'm not sure what a first year university student ('fresher') has to<BR>
> >do with litter boxes?<BR>
><BR>
>After all that partying, your marks are for shit?<BR>
<BR>
Who told you? ;-) They got better....<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1528<BR>
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